Sunday, July 31, 2011

Unused/Beta Colossi

The game's creator Fumito Ueda originally had 48 colossi in the back of his mind when planning the game, but quickly realised that this was too many and cut the number in half to 24 - the 16 we are familiar with and 8 more that are revealed in the art book. The art book states that the designers 'started out by creating the colossi arenas, then figuring out where in the expansive field they would be placed. Since we started out with 24 Colossi, it was pretty huge. The number of Colossi was ultimately reduced to 16, however, and the field was reduced a bit to its present form'.

Shrine of Worship with 24 idols from the NICO dvd (all identical 1st colossus)

24 statues are copies of #1 (Valus)

There is still proof that there were once 24 colossi in the game, but you have to hack the game to see it... at the Entrance temple there are 12 columns on the west side yet only 4 columns on the east side (which represent the 16 colossi we see in the game today), that is on either side of the central entrance that Wander and Agro pass through in the opening cut scene. There are 9 standing columns plus 3 fallen columns on the west side of the temple (makes 12). On the east side there are only 4 standing columns, but there is just enough room for 8 more columns - which would add up to 12 on either side (representing the original 24 colossi). 

9 standing columns on the west side of the Entrance temple

Plus 3 fallen columns (makes 12 on the west side)

But only 4 columns on the east side (makes 16)...

with room for 8 more columns (makes 24)

Art book image of the temple showing extra columns on the east side

So we can assume that some beta colossi arenas were designed and these should be evident on the world map. I think F0, I3, I5 and I7 are possible colossi locations but where the other beta colossi were placed is anyone's guess.

Possible beta colossi locations

The information about the colossi is sketchy and just a few images exist for each one so I've laid them out here in no particular order. Note: I've used text from the shadow of the colossus wiki, a post by Andrew FM on the Playstation 2 forums and GlitterBerri's English translation of the art book to compile this. Note: AndrewFM's post is based on a Team Ico Gamers blog article that has since been removed. I have tried to track it down without success.

It should be noted that Yamori_B did some research on the Shadow of the Colossus/Team Ico wikis and discovered that nearly all the information contained there is made up. The names of the unused colossi and other information is nothing but fiction posted by some unnamed user. But the names at least have now become part of the mythology around these unused colossi and fans like to give the colossi memorable names instead of using the developer names, so I will include them here for that reason.

The SotC wiki claims it was named Adar Flam or 'The Flame Bird' after its glowing wings that were as if on fire, but as stated above this name is made up. But based on the images, we can assume it was around sixty feet tall with carved stone eyes. The battle was fought on a very large arena, the main challenge was to get close enough to the Colossus. The Colossus would constantly flap its enormous wings, sending you flying and stumbling backwards (this action was used in the battle with Avion in the final release). The art book says 'Its body was wreathed in flame. You defeated it by plunging it into a lake'. Although there's no evidence of fire in the images perhaps it burst into flame periodically and this was when you had to lure it into the lake?

It was scrapped for two reasons. One, the arena needed for this battle to be effective was much larger than what they wanted to use. Secondly, the Colossus was very overpowering, and they had a lot of trouble trying to make the battle balanced.

These trees remind me of the dead trees at the bridge leading into 9's area

No evidence of the lake in these images

An image not shown in the art book (source unknown)

I looked around to find a place that matched the Phoenix images. As I said the trees here reminded me of the trees at the bridge to #9's area and sure enough, I found that they matched nicely. There is a distinctive forked tree on an angle that appears to have been moved across the bridge, a small tree that matches the images and two bent trees that are still in the game next to the bridge (see images below).

Forked tree on an angle comparison

Small tree comparison

Two bent trees comparison

The trees don't match exactly but it's pretty close ; )

Another thing to note is that in the Pre-release (Preview) version of the game there is water in Basaran's cave. It serves no purpose in the battle with Basaran as the colossus can't hurt you when you are in the water. It's ranged attacks seem to charge up then abruptly stop... so all it does is its stomping attacks over and over. Remaining in the water also prevents Basaran from approaching the geysers so there is no way to end the battle from the cave lake. So it's very odd why there is water there at all, except perhaps that it is a leftover of the lake that once was used in the battle with the Phoenix.

Basaran's lake - a leftover from the Phoenix?

Basaran's Lake video here:

Check out my beta colossi speculations video here: 

The Roc
The SotC wiki names this one Avus, but again a fictional name. It's actually an early version of Avion but with a head that resembled a frilled necked lizard. Originally, the battle took place on land, instead of over a lake. It was another battle that primarily focused on using Agro. You had to chase it, and try to shoot it down out of the sky using your bow. It was scrapped for two reasons; the first was that the development team felt that the battle was too similar to the battle against Phalanx, the second reason was that they were having a lot of trouble with the collisions.

Starts out like Avion perched on it's tower

I went looking for a mountain that matched the one in the above image, I thought I would find it around #9's area as it has some triangular shaped mountains there but none of them matched... also it wouldn't make any sense that the Roc lived in the same area as the Phoenix, so I kept searching until I did find one that was close but not an exact match. It's in E4 right above the cave you enter to approach the forest from the north. You can see in the image below the mountains look similar but not identical in any way, it's probably just a coincidence as for all we know the entire area that the Roc existed in may have been deleted long ago.

I'm standing on the tip of one of the north side forest towers here

Note: This is the only unused colossi that we have any video footage of, just a few precious seconds that was released by I wish I could find out where they got this footage as it's not on their website any more. Perhaps if we could find out who originally posted it we could track down some others? 

Apart from fighting it while riding on Agro not much is known about this colossus. The art books gives little information except that It was scrapped because it didn't work very well in execution, 'the way to defeat it just wasn't turning out'. But it was obviously a fast moving colossus and if you look carefully there is a clue in the art book about how you fought it.

This picture shows the Stonehenge type rocks we see at G7 in the game but with different surroundings. The caption under it reads 'Rocks meant to be used in the fight with Sirius', so perhaps you had it chase you between the rocks, Agro & Wander make it through the tight space but Sirius gets stuck! You dismount and attack it's weak point (where ever that is?) This also raises the question did Sirius exist at G7 where the Stonehenge rocks now stand? Or were they in some other location? There's no way to be sure, but at least the Stonehenge rocks are still in the game, recycled from a beta colossus ; )

Stonehenge monument at G7 in the game

Sirius stuck between Stonehenge rocks (montage)

Sirius at Stonehenge (montage)

Here you can see these other stacked rocks next to the stonehenge structure

Here they are again (images from the NICO dvd)

So I went looking for them and found these similar rocks as D5

So the questions is: did Sirius exist at G7 where we see the stonehenge structure in the game today, or did it exist as D5 where we see some similar stacked stones? There's no way to tell but my guess is that G7 is the more likely location.

Resembles an armored pig

In hot pursuit of Wander
Sketches of Sirius from the art book


And here's an actual texture from Sirius! Team Ico didn't completely delete Sirius from the code it seems, there are a few animations left and this one texture (found by HyperSNES). If the model still existed I could watch those animations, but sadly it's doesn't.

The Spider
The SotC wiki names this one Aberth which is Welsh for "Sacrifice" (another made up name). The only images we have of this colossus is some in the art book and one that appears on the NICO dvd. It had 6 legs, each with a vulnerable point which was like a metal blade, its main weak spot was on its body high above you. You had to ride around on Agro and swipe at each leg with your sword. Once each leg was hit, it would fall to the ground giving you access to its weak spot. You then ran up to it's body and jumped into its mouth, which is slack jawed at the time. Presumably you would get a couple of sword stabs in before it got back up again, so you would have to mount Agro and start the process again (Note: this swiping action is still present in the OPM and PSU demos, you can swipe sideways while sitting or standing on Agro).

It was removed from the game as it turned out to be too difficult to hit the legs from the horse, so Wander would have to dismount and hit each leg from the ground. According to the art book, 'it was defeated by leading it from water to land', so it must have lived near the ocean or a lake. 

Lived near the bridge but where was the water?

'Attacking it's legs destroyed its posture'

The cliffs in this shot look a lot like the beta cliffs found in the Preview version of the game at G0. They appear to be on the coast so my idea is that this is where the Spider lived. It's right next to the bridge and would have been on the coast, a sandy beach leading up to the cliffs. However, you will notice in the above image that the bridge support is facing North, in the final version the bridge supports always have the 'curved' edge facing North. This means the Spider was stomping around on the 'West' side of the bridge but the G0 cliffs in the Preview version are found at the East side of the bridge.

G0 beta cliffs from the Preview version with Spider arena cliffs (inset)

Here we can see the similarity of the G0 beta cliffs to the Spider's arena. A bridge support can be seen in the background so the cliffs were much closer to the bridge, however, the model has been cut along the red line so there was more of it at one time and it would have extended further west towards the bridge. This could explain why there is a low res bridge extending out behind the entrance in the game today, another leftover from an early colossi arena. It's like this part of the model was chopped out leaving what we see in the Preview version of the game. But as mentioned above, the bridge support is facing North, so the Spider obviously lived on the 'West' side of the beach (which has now been removed). Why they left the East side of the beach in the Preview version is a mystery, among many other mysteries that only the developers at Team Ico can answer.

Main bridge behind the entrance at F0 with textures turned off

In the game the main bridge extends beyond the entrance, no other model does this, so if a structure goes into a mountain it will only extend beyond it a couple of feet (for example, the front wall at Avion's arena extends just a couple of feet beyond the cliff wall (I have moved Wander behind the cliffs to make sure), but here it extends way out into the next quadrant. So I have surmised that this extension is a left over from the Spider battle. Perhaps once there was an ocean or lake here on the shores of the sandy beach where the Spider lived.

'The top of the Spider's head'

'Wander's garments were originally light blue'

Here's another image of the Spider from the NICO dvd. It's a different design to the art book images as it has sharp spikes around its feet and giant feelers reaching out for Wander. There's also no evidence of its horned mouth on the underside of it's body, however this may be obscured in shadow.

According to Ueda, 'At the first public debut of Shadow of the Colossus, several Colossi were displayed in material distributed to the press. The bird-type Colossus and spider-type Colossus were nearly completed. The Spider was meant to be defeated by slashing it with your sword while riding Agro, but that would have required us to put in a special motion just to battle that Colossus, so I didn’t think it was very elegant. However, the idea for defeating that one was resurrected in the Turtle (the 9th Colossus).

The problem with Ueda's statement above 'but that would have required us to put in a special motion just to battle that Colossus' is that they 'did' put this special motion into the game! The sword swiping animation exists in the OPM and PSU demos and serves no purpose when fighting the first colossus (the only colossus you can fight in the demos). I have even taken Agro up into the 1st colossi's arena in the OPM demo to see if anything happens by using the sword strike motion but it had no effect on Valus.

Here's my rendition of what the Spider may have looked like

This early image from the art book shows the entrance temple with columns on either side of the central passage, but it also features an early health and grip HUD which suggests that this was once a playable area! Although the weapons icon is missing here? Only the grip and health parts of the HUD are visible... so what does this meas? Wander would have had to climb up the temple, then makes his way along the vast length of the stone bridge until he arrived at the the Entrance temple. From there he could pass through the Entrance temple and move on to the F0 quadrant where the Spider lived. 

Is this Wander standing behind the tree in this image?

Retouched montage of the art book image

I have speculated that the strong gust of wind that prevents Wander from leaving the the game at the Entrance temple we see today was added later when they decided to removed the Spider colossus. It was a 'quick fix' that sealed off the F0 quadrant, they deleted the lands and the Spider leaving only a low res version of the stone bridge as a remnant of what once existed.

When a colossi dies a beam of light shoots up into the sky dispersing the clouds above its arena. So by examining the clouds that appear on the world map we can see where the discarded colossi might have lived. The green clouds are the 'fixed' clouds we see in the final versions of the game (the NTSC & PAL versions). The red clouds are from the demo games and the pre-release (preview) world maps. When I overlay both sets of clouds onto the world map we can see where they intersect, which indicates where there might have been unused colossi lairs. Above we see the clouds intersect above G0, so this might be part of the Spider's lair?

The problem with this idea is that in the three Spider images we see in the art book the Spider is always shown on the west side of the bridge (in F0) and it seems unlikely that the Spider could have crossed past the bridge into G0. So this is another mystery. Did the Spider live in F0 or G0? Or perhaps in another location? All we know is that it lived on the west side of the bridge somewhere. It may have been out beyond the Entrance temple, or perhaps further south in the forbidden lands. 

Or perhaps it was in another location that was deleted from the map. In a recent interview with Fumito Udea by Daniel Robson for Edge Online Magazine Ueda stated 'The map in the game is designed to house 16 colossi. In other words, because the placement of those 16 colossi determined the shape of the map, it would be a completely different map if we'd included all 24. The intention was to choose the 16 best colossi and focus on making those ones even better. I think we were halfway through production when we decided to reduce their number'.

The Worm
The SotC/Team Ico wiki names this one Dionin and says that it was the 'only Colossus ever to be triggered by defeating another Colossus in the same location' this is complete fiction! in fact I have removed that false information from the wiki in the hopes that the rumour will die. Yamori_B discovered that this was made up by a user as 'fanfiction' as and such has no bearing on the game past or present. The Colossus was removed from the game for being too powerful for the player and requiring a huge arena to be able to dodge its attacks. Its weak spot was inside the bulb of its head.

Speculation: We can imagine Wander arriving at a desert arena, perhaps where Phalanx (#13) exists today? Wander would ride Agro across the sandy desert until suddenly the Worm would make its appearance. It would rise out of the sand and make its way to Wander, perhaps at a good speed as Dirge (#10) does today. If it caught up to you, you would be thrown off the horse and injured, just like with Dirge. It would then dive down into the sand and disappear. Wander would have to use his sword to pinpoint its location (the way we do today when Phalanx is under the sand). As soon as it reappeared Wander would charge to its position on Agro, leap off and grab on! Climb up its fur covered, snake like body, then jump into it's mouth (from the below image this may have required a backwards jump). Once inside its mouth, you would only have a short time to stab its weak spot (sigil) before being unceremoniously spat out onto the sand (the same way you are kicked off Phalanx when it dives head first into the sand). Rinse and repeat a couple of times and the Worm would die in a dramatic cut scene!

'The flower bulb-like section was its weak point'

Photoshop montage of the Worm attacking Wander

And below is the statue texture of the Worm that is still in the game code today! You can get a sense of what it looked like from this poor quality image which reveals its circular mouth and seven mandibles. The three worm/snake type statues in the Shrine of Worship look like this, just with different heads.




Above are two textures of the Worm that are still in the game code, one which seems to be for the Worm itself and the other which appears to be a loading screen for the Worm, or perhaps part of the cut scene which introduces the Worm? Again, it's hard to piece together any coherent details about how these textures were used as we have so little to work with. What might be more likely is that the 'boss_worm' texture relates to the black streamers that pass through Wander's body each time he slays a colossus, as they are 'worm' like and the texture appears to resemble the black streamers or tendrils? This also may be true for the 'load_boss_worm' textures as it has that same colour pallet i.e. dark with a lighter outer edge. So they may have nothing to do with the discarded colossus but rather they are textures for the black tendrils instead.

The Monkey
This Colossus is fought inside a cave environment that has stalactites. It can grab them and climb around the ceiling. In some depictions (from the art book images), the Colossus is able to grab them with all four limbs, others only two. The Colossus would attack by dropping on top of you from the ceiling when you walked below it 'It hung from the ceiling, and you'd defeat it by dropping it to the floor'. 

Speculation: We can imagine Wander entering the cave, perhaps leaving Agro outside as the cave entrance is too narrow for the horse to enter? The cut scene would play out and the Monkey would dart around the ceiling from stalactite to stalactite like a colossal Tarzan! You would have to shoot its arms (or its legs) with your arrows (much like we do with #8 today) until it fell to the cave floor. 

Once you reach its unconscious bulk, you would climb up and stab at its weak point, perhaps there was more than one? It would then awaken and throw you off and you would have to repeat the process. I think it must have been a fast colossus as it would have to catch up to Wander easily in order to fall down on him. Alternatively, it may have had a ranged attack (as #8 does) and this would knock Wander down temporarily, allowing the Monkey to fall onto Wander. We can only assume that being hit by the Monkey would injure Wander and not kill him, so he would have time to recover and escape its clutches.

Note: Could this be the colossus that lived at I3 behind the Dam? From the beta map it looks like a closed cavern with entrances on three sides, see map below.

Map of I3 showing possible entrances to the Monkey's lair

For further proof of the Monkey being at I3, I used the co-ordinates shown on the image below. You can see the X, Y, Z values on this image from the art book which features 'A test shot of Wander holding onto Monkey'. The co-ordinates are: X +0.22, Y -58.66 and Z +94.82. These values represent the local co-ordinates of the quadrant, that is the Monkey's position within it's own map square. So I overlaid a grid onto the I3 map square and marked the position of the co-ordinates (see below), and it seems to match the cave like structure shown on the map quite well. 

However, the co-ordinates fit much better when overlaid on #10's cave at B4 (almost in the centre), so perhaps the Monkey was planned to exist at B4? The problem with this is the Z value (the elevation). At I2 (the Dam) the elevation is very close to the the co-ordinates revealed in the art book image (+92.82), Dirge's cave is at an elevation of -8, way too low to be from the art book image.

Monkey position co-ordinates at I3 (300m x 300m)

Position works equally well at B4, #10's cave (apart from the elevation)
Photoshop montage of what the Monkey's lair might have looked like

Photoshop montage of the Monkey at Dirge's cave

So in the final analysis I believe the Monkey colossus existed in the cave at I3, and I think this is proven based on the co-ordinates revealed in the art book image of the Monkey (Thanks to Glitterberri for pointing them out to me ; )

Check out my beta Monkey speculations here: 

The Griffin
The SotC wiki names this one Kyos (a fictional name), the battle was fought in a similar way to how you fight Dirge. It's a battle that focuses around riding Agro, and using him to get onto the Colossus. However, it took a while to finally get onto the Colossus, and apparently it was pretty easy to fall off. For this reason, it got frustrating and quickly tedious, as you had to keep repeating a long procedure to get back on the Colossus after falling off, that's why it was scrapped.

The area in this shot is similar to an area of the beta mountains at I7 on the map

Check out my I7 speculation video here:

You can see from the illustrations below that Wander was supposed to strike the structures on its back with his sword (the same as #12), perhaps this changed it's direction as it seems like Wander is riding the colossus. The art book says 'You could defeat it by making use if its weakness, fire'. So it seems this idea was recycled and later used with Celosia (#11) but where and how you lit the fire is not stated, but perhaps there was a brazier nearby that you could use to light a torch.

There are no clouds above the I7 quadrant, they only exist to the north and south, so it seems unlikely that a colossus lived here. I based my evidence about the Griffin being at I7 from the strange wall like texture on the east side of I7 as it resembled the wall we see in the art book image. But for all we know, the entire area that the Griffin occupied was removed from the game early in development, so there's no way to really know. It's just pure speculation at this point.

The Devil
The SotC wiki names this one Pholux (again fictional). It resembles a winged gargoyle and lived in some ruins by the edge of a cliff. It had long arms which he uses to climb the stone pillars around the arena, a head with several small projections which fire plasma bolts (like those of #8, #9 and #12), and finally it sports two tiny wings which are unable to lift it off the ground, but are capable of producing strong gusts of wind (again as we see in the battle with Avion in the final release version).

The art book says 'It was an extremely small colossus.You'd defeat it by menacing it with your bow, then drawing closer while hiding in the grass and attacking from behind. I imagined the battle with the Devil to be fierce. You'd hide in the grass and jump on its back'The primary goal of this battle was stealth and deception. The Colossus had a weak spot on it's back. You had to hide in the various patches of grass and try to attack that weak spot with your bow-and-arrow.

Note: Yamori_B has speculated that this colossus lived at I1, based on the geometric design of the mountains (from the game's map) and the cliff like area from the art book images. However, this is just wild speculation on her part ; )

Early Build Locations
These images are from the NICO dvd and can give us a sense of what the landscape looked like in the early development of the game.

4 stone towers at south entrance to what is now #10's lair (Dirge)

Low res stone towers at B2

Above we see that a remnant of the towers still exists in the OPM and PSU demos. It was WWWArea who found these just recently, they had been there all along! I have used code to zoom in here so you can see them more clearly although only three of the towers exist in the demos but originally it seemed there were four.

Colossal tree is alive and healthy

You can also get a nice view of the colossal tree as it once may have looked in the game. Perhaps in an earlier build it was alive and well instead of the spooky dead tree we see in the game today. Yamori_B has speculated that its leaves were burnt off by the Phoenix leaving the burnt husk we see today ; )

See my video of this area here:

Update: 24-11-13
In the latest edition of Edge magazine (issue #261), there is a new interview with Fumito Ueda by Daniel Robson. I was in contact with Daniel before the interview so I asked him to sneak in a few questions... Daniel allowed me to ask three questions which were:

1) Where were the arenas of the 8 discarded colossi located on the world map?
2) What was the purpose of the Dam like structure at I2 on the world map?
3) Was it once possible to climb to the very top of the Shrine of Worship?

But Daniel only ended up asking one question and this was Ueda's reply.

On the topic of Shadow of the Colossus, where on its map had you planned to place the eight colossi that were cut from the game?
The map in the game is designed to house 16 colossi. In other words, because the placement of those 16 colossi determined the shape of the map, it would be a completely different map if we'd included all 24. The intention was to choose the 16 best colossi and focus on making those ones even better. I think we were halfway through production when we decided to reduce their number. Oh, there's certainly leftover test data and half-edited areas, but it's a bit like the Minus World in Super Mario Bros: I think it holds more romantic appeal if you don't know the specifics.

So in other words, Ueda prefers not to say much about this topic and would rather leave it up to the players to decide what the world map once looked like 'it holds more romantic appeal if you don't know the specifics'. So we may never know where the 8 discarded colossi were originally planned to be, as those areas of the map don't exist in the game anymore, or if they do we can only speculate on where they are.

Daniel also asked Ueda about the Dam (off the record) that is it didn't appear in the article, he asked how he felt about fans being so passionate that they hack the game to find stuff like that, but he simply replied, "That comes from an illegal source, so no comment". In other words it's clear Ueda doesn't like the idea of players hacking into his beloved creation... this bodes badly for any future answers to these sort of questions.



  2. Great blog. I think that you, and anyone else who loves SotC, should think about playing Panzer Dragoon Zwei. It has a tremendously strong influence on SotC. The language used in SotC is taken from Zwei, but that's just the beginning. The art direction and feeling evoked by the games is very similar.

    I mention it here because that monkey strongly puts me in mind of one of the bosses from Zwei. All of Zwei's bosses are gigantic of course. Go to the end of this video for a look at it:

  3. I would apreciate to battle with Dionin,it is powerful,and impressive.

    Hamish:I saw 10 seconds of this game and got interested,now I'm downloading the entire saga XD

    1. Yeah i would love to fight Dionin a.k.a worm because he looks epic and he is HUGE best colossi ever in my opinion number 1 throphy goes to worm

  4. It's just me,or the fact of the remains of a beta stage laying there to anyone see is exciting? xD
    Well,I still believe that Sirius would be a pretty good challenge in the game,and I would certainly replace Celosia with it,if I could.

    Seeing the G0 cliffs and the spider picture now,yeah,those cliffs may be just an area created for tests =/

    You can play the animations using Celosia's model,and it's model will not look so bad by playing another colossus's animation.(I guess their skeletons were similar,just like Celosia and Cenobia)

    dormin leo_A.nmo sirius_A_back_start.anb sirius_A_back.anb sirius_A_back_end.anb

    Just three [very]short and simple animations.
    Well,it's better than nothing I think.

  5. I would like to fight Adam Flam, it apears to be very strong :D

    1. yeah he seems to be a cool colossi i would be cool too get him in a lake and climb on him and it would be a perfect boss

  6. Incredible post! I never new about half of these unused colossi. But now I'm wondering how and where you got the complete picture of the dam that you use as a background here. I've never seen it in this much detail.

  7. Thanks ; ) Yeah, I made that background image using screen captures from the game - so it's just an imaginative montage I came up with...

    I made a video showing all the layers involved:

    I wish there was more info about the beta colossus, but all we have are a few notes from the art book that Glitterberri translated.

    1. hmm I wonder if you could convince team ICO to make a stand alone expansion with the deleted colossi now since ps4 and xbox one is out

  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

  9. The 12th image used in the Early Build Locations section is a normal (final version)place as far as i know.
    Isn't it?

  10. Replies
    1. I am glad to see I am not the only fan : )

  11. Thanks for sharing this great content, I really enjoyed the insign you bring to the topic, awesome stuff!

    Flame cut steel

  12. Very Impressive. Great Images and Very Promising Proofs. I think Monkey, Phoenix, Spider, and Devil would make a good challenge even for the greatest of gamers.

  13. The game would only be beaster if the Phonenix and the Spider (maybe the Monkey) were on it :(

  14. Seeing all these screenshots shows that they actually had a finished build of the game, or were at least close to finishing it, makes me wonder if there's still a copy of it floating around the Sony Computer Entertainment HQ that the employees could/would play for fun.
    But if there isn't a copy, I really wonder what everyone on the Dev team were thinking when Fumito Ueda made them delete it all, haha

  15. Nomad or any one ask Team ICO if they can make a stand alone expansion with the unused colossi.

  16. Also i know you guys love spider and Pheonex and devil were still here but i would like to see worm in the game and also maybe monkey or Sirius i also think mabey Griffin could be ok but i would probably get killed.

  17. nomad you are a good man keep up the good work god bless you